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I did not know this

August 29th 2008 00:56
Coal emits radio-active discharge, there you have it, in fact possibly more than nuclear power.

Read below or click through to the link for some facts contained in an aritcle by George Monbiot. I had no idea about this. I am happy to acknowledge that we need coal for now but this gives me more determination to push for the world to be fast tracked towards renewable energy.

CLICK HERE FOR LINK


The odd and widely-ignored truth is that routine radioactive discharges from coal-burning are greater than those produced by nuclear plants. Coal contains trace amounts of uranium and thorium. Though these are present at much lower levels than in nuclear fuel, a lot more coal is burnt, which means that total emissions are greater. An article in Scientific American last year maintained that levels of ionising radiation in the bones of people living around coal plants are up to six times higher than the levels in people living around atomic power stations(2).


The people most at risk from the radioactivity associated with coal (not to mention far greater hazards such as dust, heavy metals and sulphur and nitrous oxide pollution) are the workers – both in the mines and in the power plants. Coal mining is associated with some of the most unpleasant industrial diseases ever recorded. Why would a trade unionist wish to expose working people to these dangers, when they could instead be employed, at minimal risk to their health, building and installing wind turbines, wave machines and solar power plants?

Scargill maintains that nuclear power is four times as expensive as coal-fired electricity. There’s a standard model for estimating future costs, of which he should be aware, produced by the International Energy Agency(3). This shows that it’s likely to be 10-50% more expensive to save a tonne of carbon through coal burning with carbon capture and storage than by means of nuclear energy. (Wind power, incidentally, is much cheaper than either)(4). The agency’s figures are not definitive (nothing in this field is), but the estimates it gives are for coal bought at anticipated market prices, not for the much more expensive fuel Arthur proposes: coal produced only from deep mines in the United Kingdom.


I feel I need to point out that I have not become an advocate for nuclear power. My position is that environmentalists should stop trying to pick technologies for electricity generation. Instead we should demand a maximum level for the carbon dioxide produced per megawatt-hour, impose a number of other public safety measures, then allow the energy companies to find the cheapest means of delivering it. Otherwise we are in danger of backing the solutions we find aesthetically appealing and delaying the massive carbon cuts that need to be made. If nuclear power meets the very tough conditions I proposed last week, we should no longer oppose it; though that remains a big if. This is too subtle a point for Arthur and other commentators, who are shrieking that Monbiot has gone nuclear.



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14 Comments. [ Add A Comment ]

Comment by James Rickard

August 29th 2008 01:20
Good post! I didn't know that either. Growing up in West Virginia and all the mines and such, you'd think I'd have hear about that along the way.

Comment by Louie

August 29th 2008 01:46
likewise James, I have been on countless School excursions to mines and power plants as a kid, I am still digesting the implications but I am sure once I move from shock I am going to get a LOT angry....

Comment by Kim L

August 29th 2008 05:53
I agree Louie. A maximum efficiency needs to be identified and implimented with our generators finding ways to use technologies shaped to meet it.

I'm not a supporter of 'nuclear' as a gen source, but I do think we will soon reach a point where we need to make a choice based on the carbon emmissions baseline. I'm not sure that we have the TIME to continue debating the issue.
As consumers, the best thing we can do is join our electricity retailer's green energy program. If people demand green options, the market will move to accommodate.

Great post.. as always.



Comment by Louie

August 29th 2008 05:57
Kim exactly as consumers the best option is to take the green power option, maybe i need to post on that topic soon

cheers

happy friday

Louie

Comment by KylieW

August 29th 2008 06:27
Wow, I had absolutely no idea about that. Kind of scary given just how much coal is burnt every day.

You really do learn something new everyday.........

Comment by Lara M

August 29th 2008 08:07
Wow...I didn't know that either.
I agree that we should always (try to) opt for the green option...

Comment by Cheryl J

August 29th 2008 11:45
Louie, this is really informative. I had no idea at all. Great post.

Comment by atula

August 30th 2008 06:32
i really did not know that coal emits so much thorium and uranium...and the emission level is really so grt...
thanks for the info....

Comment by Mountain Fog

August 30th 2008 14:57
that is amazing!
However, when a nuclear reactor has an accident...

Besides, would not the costs of a full scale national nuclear power grid be prohibitive for a small country/economy like ours? The price of coal fired electricity supply is already very high, what will the costs be with nuclear?

I still do not know why filters on smoke stacks are not being investigated and developed? Why can't a system of filtering and coolling of the gases be applied to the smoke stacks of coal burners? There may even be a way of breaking down the components of the gases, so they are much less harmful, maybe not. However, I wonder if anyone has bothered to seriously research that area?

My brother helped develop a really effective turbine adapted for coastal tidal flow, but that was 20 odd years ago, and no one in government would give it two seconds attention. Now they have them in Europe, but not here.

The lock-in effect, of big employers in the power industries is also a huge problem; politicians don't want to put a lot of people out of work. So, why not put the new technologies into their hands, so they can transfer from one system to the other with the minimum disruption to the economy?

We also need even better generators/turbines I suspect, as the load needed by industry cannot be met 24 hours a day by the renewable energy systems, so far at least.

cheers

fog
P.S. As my father, an exploration geologist, once told me, it is not the nuclear reactor that is necessarily the worry, but the human error component. I think we had that chat sometime after the Three Mile Island nuclear accident in America. There has been many accidents over the years and a lot of alleged cover ups. And we must never forget Chernobyl...





Comment by Danceswithwords

August 30th 2008 23:56
Great post, and for me because it pushes common threads about "green" energy sources, and the fear mongering that we are killing the planet with "dirty" power sources, and now that things like coal contain traces of nuclear isotopes. OOoooohhhh Nooooo!

Firstly the fact they have found "traces" of Uranium and Thorium in coal is not surprising at all. You can find these trace elements in just about everything that comes out of the ground. See when I wrote that sentence it is for "effect." It's a true statement, though it implies that the nuclear elements are EVERYWHERE, and in everything. The same as for coal. It's not ALL coal. If they found these trace elements in your cornflakes you'd stop buying them right?

There is no scientific proof that carbon (emissions or otherwise) cause greenhouse gases. Yep read it again folks. It's a known FACT. The planet is getting warmer, in a wonderful cycle, that the Earth has been doing for millions and millions of years.

I often wonder if we weren't on a "heating" phase of the Earth and it was getting colder - like heading into an ice age, would we all be burning stuff to warm the planet up? Hmmm. Maybe that's the best example for seeing how futile the human effort is towards "changing" climate.

Believing in that if we all cranked up our BBQ's that we could warm the planet!!! Most of us would know that you'd struggle to keep your backyard warm, though I'm guessing their be some "greenie" growing carbon free emitting organic wood, and advertising the fact he was off home to save the planet by having a BBQ!!! Same goes for cooling folks.

One of the "greenest" countries in the world and this is across all the international measures for it - is Sweden. Guess what their main power source is? Nuclear. Yes that horrible dangerous reaction to make energy, that is being done everyday on a scale, most of us would find truly hard to imagine. It's called the Sun.

Now before everyone jumps on my obvious post, I'm all for "green" energy, and things that make the air easier to breathe and are non-polluting. For the "Green" reason, and not the politically motivated rhetoric and unproven science theories - like carbon emissions causing Greenhouse gases. Remember those weapons of MASS Destruction in IRAQ? To use that as an analogy maybe be politically incorrect, but when they didn't find any, and all that was in IRAQ was an unbelievable amount of OIL... Gee, who is destructing (or rather distracting us) from what?

Yes Fog they are working on Coal (stack) emissions and the cleansing of these. This is a very expensive process for coal plants, making 'clean' power (for you and me) more expensive, but despite what people imagine, most people running coal plants are very aware of their output and proactively seeking ways to keep coal plants running, and as cleanly as possible.

The last part is the fact that we couldn't build enough WIND turbines to power the energy needs of the Earth. They have done the maths. Wind energy is a way for governments to show their "green" to the nation. For example to run the Comalco Aluminum smelter in New Zealand you would need to build a wind farm that would cover 1/3 of the South Island!!! This is ONE smelter that uses 25% of NZ's entire power production.

So when we think about our own homes, and what little power we need, where it comes from, uranium and thorium and boogie men in radiation suits, lighting a bbq or opening the fridge door (to heat or cool our place) please smile and realize the problem is a great big one, and lots of people want you to THINK and REACT for a very different agendas.

No matter WHAT mankind does, even if we switched everything off, the planet will keep getting warmer, the weather crazier, (there isn't a scientist who would say otherwise!) and governments and media will keep pushing the fear mongering about green house and carbon emissions and boogies in coal. It is a CON and a TAX to bridge the gap in depleting GLOBAL OIL, which whether you like it or not AFFECTS the world economy.

Well hopefully some lights came on for a few of you. I'm off to switch mine off so your PC's keep running and you can all keep writing to one another in ORBLE.




Dances

Comment by Bill Green

August 31st 2008 08:05
Hi danceswithwords, yeah Sweden is going great guns with nuclear power, just like France was until the nuclear accident a month ago. They had no idea how to contain it; didn't respond well; and it's destroyed a water source and farm land for 350,000 years. Not only that the families in the area have all been exposed (The Guardian). Washington state has been unable to stop the leaks in their nuclear waste sites (see website for Washington state) and have poisoned the Columbia river. The sea round Sellafield in the UK is the most polluted in the world.

Comment by Fobzy

September 1st 2008 00:50
Very scary stuff for my little brain, we are far too often assured how Nuclear is safe, and perhaps it is in ideal circumstances, but when things go wrong, the effects are just so devastating, even I can work that out.

I'll leave it for you guys to sort it all out, I hope you are all 'actively' involved, talk is cheap.

Vote with your feet.

Comment by Lilla

September 8th 2008 02:49
Hi Louie,

I smell a rat here, no matter how I look at it, I find it strange that this life altering fact is being revealed just now, when all the governments of the world are looking ar Nuclear means as the fast track of the future, oh subsidiesed by wind and solar of course. But not the mainstay, not sustainable for governments at all.

With this in mind, this sudden revelation makes perfect sense... including them holding back this information for God knows how long, well until is suited their agenda.

Lilla ...

Comment by Louie

September 9th 2008 00:50
yes agreed Lilla, its always all about the agenda

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